[frugalista]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/dec...rental-home-ons

Hell of a lot of fed up prospective FTBs in the comments section.

frug.

[benborg]

frugalista, on Dec 9 2009, 02:02 PM, said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/dec...rental-home-ons

Hell of a lot of fed up prospective FTBs in the comments section.

frug.

I graduated in the last recession and had to live at home for a while. Must be even tougher for students graduating at the moment with huge debts. I don't think high house prices is the primary cause of the trend. Struggling to get a job and get a career off the ground is the problem.

[geneer]

benmorg, on Dec 9 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

I graduated in the last recession and had to live at home for a while. Must be even tougher for students graduating at the moment with huge debts. I don't think high house prices is the primary cause of the trend.

Not sure about that Benmorg.
Obviously they cant afford deposits or mortgage payments.

[benborg]

geneer, on Dec 9 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Not sure about that Benmorg.
Obviously they cant afford deposits or mortgage payments.

But they can rent if they have jobs. When I graduated it was perfectly normal to live in a flatshare with friends. Nobody bought a house straight after university, unless their daddy was buying it for them. The only reason I lived at home for a while was because it took a while to find a decent job. I'm sure the same is true today - it's a very tough job market at the moment and there lots of fresh graduates competing for a small number of openings. Buying a house is probably the last thing on their mind.

[geneer]

benmorg, on Dec 9 2009, 07:02 PM, said:

But they can rent if they have jobs. When I graduated it was perfectly normal to live in a flatshare with friends. Nobody bought a house straight after university, unless their daddy was buying it for them. The only reason I lived at home for a while was because it took a while to find a decent job. I'm sure the same is true today - it's a very tough job market at the moment and there lots of fresh graduates competing for a small number of openings. Buying a house is probably the last thing on their mind.

Quite right. Flatshare/house share is perfectly normal.
I lived in a huuuuuuge Edinburgh townhouse with 3 others for the first 5 years or so out of uni.
My bedroom was size of some peoples flats. Certainly couldn't afford a mortage at the time.
I got tired of the sharing, as you do. But it was great fun whilst it lasted.

Anyhow, you are of course right about the job issue, I suspect theres a proportion living at home as they squirrel away enough for a deposit.
Not something I could have done. I left home at 17.

[Cletus VanDamme]

geneer, on Dec 10 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

Quite right. Flatshare/house share is perfectly normal.
I lived in a huuuuuuge Edinburgh townhouse with 3 others for the first 5 years or so out of uni.
My bedroom was size of some peoples flats. Certainly couldn't afford a mortage at the time.
I got tired of the sharing, as you do. But it was great fun whilst it lasted.

Anyhow, you are of course right about the job issue, I suspect theres a proportion living at home as they squirrel away enough for a deposit.
Not something I could have done. I left home at 17.

+1

It seems the generation below us don't want to do the flatshare thing that those of us who are now in our mid-late 30s were quite happy to do for a few years. Their expectations are so much higher, not sure why.

[benborg]

Cletus VanDamme, on Dec 10 2009, 03:40 PM, said:

+1

It seems the generation below us don't want to do the flatshare thing that those of us who are now in our mid-late 30s were quite happy to do for a few years. Their expectations are so much higher, not sure why.

HPI bandwagon probably. When I first moved to London nobody made pots of money by buying a house, so most people didn't care about getting on the ladder. Fast forward to 2007 and everybody is obsessed with buying somewhere with "potential" and blinging the tits off it.

[backtoparents]

I think there could well be a few younguns who've moved back to their parents to help out with their money problems too....

Not me, I'm still here.

btp

[dxxiii]

geneer, on Dec 10 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

Not something I could have done. I left home at 17.

+1

Left at 16, love my family to bits but would have driven me round the bend living at home much past then; I did the flatshare thing for over a decade and had a lot of fun in that time but it definitely has a shelf life.

It was travelling rather than rent that slowed my deposit fund down, wouldn't change any of my earlier (if possibly misguided) life choices for anything tho.

[geneer]

dxxiii, on Dec 11 2009, 08:39 PM, said:

+1

Left at 16, love my family to bits but would have driven me round the bend living at home much past then; I did the flatshare thing for over a decade and had a lot of fun in that time but it definitely has a shelf life.

It was travelling rather than rent that slowed my deposit fund down, wouldn't change any of my earlier (if possibly misguided) life choices for anything tho.

Hiya D23!
You made it to the Island then. Its a bit more chilled here than GHPC. Have a mojito.
Make sure you shut the door behind you, just in case The pimp is sniffing around outside.

[Timm]

geneer, on Dec 10 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

Quite right. Flatshare/house share is perfectly normal.
I lived in a huuuuuuge Edinburgh townhouse with 3 others for the first 5 years or so out of uni.
My bedroom was size of some peoples flats. Certainly couldn't afford a mortage at the time.
I got tired of the sharing, as you do. But it was great fun whilst it lasted.

Anyhow, you are of course right about the job issue, I suspect theres a proportion living at home as they squirrel away enough for a deposit.
Not something I could have done. I left home at 17.

Why don't you buy a house with the money in the valise that Lily Allen's dad left under the bed?

[frugalista]

Timm, on Dec 12 2009, 06:17 PM, said:

Why don't you buy a house with the money in the valise that Lily Allen's dad left under the bed?

It's just occurred to me, in the days of Shallow Grave (1994) and This Life (1996-97), sharing a rented flat was portrayed as quite a glamorous thing, a stylish part of the upwardly-mobile twentysomething milieu. Can you imagine that today? It strikes me that if the same characters were portrayed today they would be shown *owning* a nice flat, not renting one.

frug.

[m00m00]

I work in the public sector

in my office there are people in their late 30s and 40s who still live at home with their parents.

scary

[Mushroom]

Interesting, the previous assumed "natural progression" in life for the "educated" ones seems to have stalled.
This will mean problems ahead.
A form of dispossession will enter their psyche, they not then feeling allegiance to the society they are assummed to be part of.
It is possibly already evident.

[Magnolia Walls]

Mushroom, on Dec 14 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

Interesting, the previous assumed "natural progression" in life for the "educated" ones seems to have stalled.
This will mean problems ahead.
A form of dispossession will enter their psyche, they not then feeling allegiance to the society they are assummed to be part of.
It is possibly already evident.

A great many of the "educated" ones come from private schools and will be given enough to allow "natural progression". We have come full circle and it seems all about inherited money now. Harking back to the worlds of Dickens and Austen, where you had to marry well if not provided for by your family.

The have-nots will have to learn their place, I think most of them are much more aware of house prices etc, than they would have been ten years ago.

[Mushroom]

Magnolia Walls, on Dec 14 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

A great many of the "educated" ones come from private schools and will be given enough to allow "natural progression". We have come full circle and it seems all about inherited money now. Harking back to the worlds of Dickens and Austen, where you had to marry well if not provided for by your family.

The have-nots will have to learn their place, I think most of them are much more aware of house prices etc, than they would have been ten years ago.

I was thinking of the many who have come through the State system and had a tertiary education, believing that would provide what might be called a "middle" class lifestyle, one basic of which was, historically, considered to be home ownership.
I'm not so sure that the picture you paint will be possible.
Well, I hope not.
The middle is where innovation and progress comes from.

[Magnolia Walls]

Mushroom, on Dec 14 2009, 11:38 PM, said:

I was thinking of the many who have come through the State system and had a tertiary education, believing that would provide what might be called a "middle" class lifestyle, one basic of which was, historically, considered to be home ownership.
I'm not so sure that the picture you paint will be possible.
Well, I hope not.
The middle is where innovation and progress comes from.

I hope not too.

History seems less about progress and innovation if you look at the bit that was before the agri and industrial revolutions. Is regression impossible?

[frugalista]

Mushroom, on Dec 14 2009, 11:38 PM, said:

I was thinking of the many who have come through the State system and had a tertiary education, believing that would provide what might be called a "middle" class lifestyle, one basic of which was, historically, considered to be home ownership.

It's already fucked for many people I know.

Mushroom, on Dec 14 2009, 11:38 PM, said:

The middle is where innovation and progress comes from.

Yes, I recently asked a right-leaning friend whether he wanted privilege or meritocracy for his own son, now 2. My friend has a bit of cash now, so unsurprisingly he wanted privilege. I pointed out that in such a society, if his son were to fall ill, he would end up being treated by a doctor who'd effectively got the job by growing up in the right area, going to the right school etc. I don't have a problem with such doctors but in aggregate if you allow all children to reach their full potential, you get better doctors. (doctors just being a random example, you get better everything of course).

My friend didn't care, of course.

frug.

[Mushroom]

Magnolia Walls, on Dec 14 2009, 11:44 PM, said:

I hope not too.

History seems less about progress and innovation if you look at the bit that was before the agri and industrial revolutions. Is regression impossible?

It can be argued that the emergence of the middle class saved the upper class from the true wrath of the peasants.
You know, middle with a vested interest in the system stuff, lots to lose from disruption.
Then, with modern systems of "control", who knows?
As you say only what?, some two or three centuries of the technologies that have led to our current state.
This "climate change" stuff, where will that lead?
To amazing new technologies that mitigate the supposed problems?
Or, the dead hand of Statist control upon most?

[Magnolia Walls]

Mushroom, on Dec 15 2009, 12:12 AM, said:

It can be argued that the emergence of the middle class saved the upper class from the true wrath of the peasants.
You know, middle with a vested interest in the system stuff, lots to lose from disruption.
Then, with modern systems of "control", who knows?
As you say only what?, some two or three centuries of the technologies that have led to our current state.
This "climate change" stuff, where will that lead?
To amazing new technologies that mitigate the supposed problems?
Or, the dead hand of Statist control upon most?

Depressing.

I think that running out of cheap energy will have a bigger impact on society than climate change. Climate change brings natural disaster and devastation for some - more costly energy means a reduced quality of life for everyone. If the pie is getting smaller people will fight to maintain their share.