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Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:41:43 +0000

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Spend Your Vouchers Now

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:38:23 +0000

BBC live radio, a concerned father called up to tell us that the vouchers he got from Zavvi for his children were refused at the stores - as he was classed as a creditor. In my opinion these paper vouchers are a promise by Zavvi to hold your goods, what ever you choose them to be, until you turn up boxing day to collect YOUR property. In effect, by refusing to honor these promissory notes, Zavvi has already taken payment for goods AND is now RE-SELLING the same goods, selling the same goods twice! To claw back as much money as possible. I'm not to familier with the law, but, if I was a holder of Zavvi vouchers.. I would at least call the police to make a report that my goods are held by Zavvi, then after making the report - I would head down to Zavvi, collect goods to the value of the vouchers, head to the till, tell the attendand "here is my voucher, here are my goods... i am going to walk out wiht my property, if the alarms go off then sue me". I some *censored* of a security guard then tried to stop me, I would give him hell. I am sure that this man is not a unique case, and many Children up and down the country have had part of their Christmas spoiled. Did you get vouchers for Christmas? Did you give vouchers to your loved ones for Christmas? Take my advice, go out and exchange them for GOODs NOW! They already have your cash. Before the stores you are going to shop in go the same way as Adams, Woolworths, Zavvi and the rest... Remember, at least 30 retails companies are set to go bust in the New Year, do you feel Lucky?

OUTRAGE: Bailed-out bank pays �1.6bn bonuses

Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:42:34 +0000

Parasites, the lot of them. Look at how, YOUR tax money is being stolen from you.

Goldman Sachs, which switched from being an investment bank to a bank holding company in September, lost �1.36 billion in the final quarter of this year.

They went cap in hand, squealing like ikle igle piggies - we need money, we need money.

Well, they got their state TAX funded hand out and as soon as they got what they wanted they paid out the equivalentin bonuses.

And here is the rub, this is their defense

"The firm defended the practice of paying out such bonuses, arguing it helped it to "attract and motivate" the best people."

Well if they bloody well did have the right people with the right motivation, they would not have made such a big lossin the first place.

And to take YOUR money, raise YOUR taxes while YOU are struggling to make ends meet, Johny banker is sipping champaign and sailing on a yacht somewhere of the back of YOUR cash.

AND to boot, if these pigs had not fattened themselves up so much from the public trough, they are raising the interest rate on YOUR credit card, and mortgage debt - given half the chance they will repossess your house too!

AND WHAT'S MORE!!! IF they had the money in the first place to pay all those bonuses, then... they really did not need to STEAL from the tax payer at all.

Banksters, the lot of them. And Gordon Brown is letting them get away with it.

Anyone else outraged?! Your bank charges are going up, to pay the banks, and your taxes are going up, to pay the banks - you're getting shafted at both ends. Tell me, who benefits, well its certainly not you or I.

I can smell revolution in the air, and the banksters will be first up against the wall.

And across the industry I can smell FRAUD on a scale never before seen - wasn't there a story on a special policeforce investigating bank FRAUD and bringing to justice the people responsible for bringing down the banking system?

FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD

Read more here.

http://money.uk.msn.com/investing/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=11973572

Cartoons

Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:22:00 +0000

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/gallery/2008/sep/23/creditcrunch.marketturmoil?lightbox=1

Mortgage Margin Calls

Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:47:58 +0000

Another popular myth, blasted about my the likes of Kursty Allsop is that lower house prices only
affect you if you are selling your house, and that if you are in it for the long term you have nothing
to worry about.

Oh how WRONG could "Property Experts" be, they have no idea the world of pain they have lead people to!

Blindly adding this misinformation to their list of reasons why it is a good idea to buy a house at any time,thousands of first time buyers marched on not thinking about the consequences.

This week, debtors of the Abbey bank received a gentle reminder of their contractual obligation that if their houses fell to farpast their original valuation at the time of taking out their mortgage, they would have to make up the difference by paying a lump sum up front.

I don't think that people can afford to do this, having "got on the ladder at all costs".

Abbey has said it has no plans to use the clause to force borrowers to do so but it did not guarantee that it would not do so in future.But in all honesty, with the sheer steepness of the house price falls we have already seen, the collapse of the lending market andthe gloomy recession on the horizon - banks may have no choice but to ask for �1000s or reposes their customers homes.

Again, does any of this seem familiar to the people who were in the last recession?

No one ever seems to learn.

And while house prices were rising (unsustainably), no one wanted to listen - and most people treated you like a leper forsuggesting otherwise.

I seem to be wearing my "Told you so" T-shirt more and more often.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7781043.stm

URGENT: ICESAVE CLAIM DEADLINE TO PASS SOON.

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:57:37 +0000

Thanks to Secret Squirrel for bringing this to attention. Get a move on and send out your claims, don't get distracted by all the Christmas fun. http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1369&pid=3222&st=0&#entry3222

Jokes doing the email round...

Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:38:23 +0000

I went to the ATM this morning and it said "insufficient funds". I'm wondering is it them or me. ------------- Talked to my bank manager the other day and he said he was going to concentrate on the big issues from now on. He sold me one outside KFC yesterday. ------------- What's the definition of optimism? An Investment Banker ironing five shirts on a Sunday evening --------------- Bradford & Bingley employees are concerned that they were given no notice of the takeover by Santander. A government spokes man said, �nobody expects the Spanish acquisition.� -------------- What's the difference between an investment banker and a large pizza? A large pizza can feed a family of four. -------------- If you had purchased $1000.00 of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. With Enron, you would have $16.50 left of the original $1000. With WorldCom, you would have less than $5.00 left. If you had purchased $1000.00 of Delta Air Lines stock you would have $49.00 left. If you had purchased United Airlines, you would have nothing left. But, if you had purchased $1000.00 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, and then turned in the cans for recycling, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle. This is called the 401-Keg Plan. -------------- Q. A Banker's Favourite Stripper? A. Burnadette -------------- What's the capital of Iceland? �2.50 ---------------- Whats the difference between a pigeon an an Investment Banker? A pigeoen can still leave a small deposit on a brand new Porsche!!!! ---------------- Q: With the current market turmoil, what�s the easiest way to make a small fortune? A: Start off with a large one. ---------------- The credit crunch is getting bad isn�t it? I mean, I let my brother borrow $10 a couple of weeks back, it turns out I�m now America�s third biggest lender. ---------------- Resolving to surprise her husband, an investment banker�s wife pops by his office. She finds him in an unorthodox position, with his secretary sitting in his lap. Without hesitation, he starts dictating, ��and in conclusion, gentlemen, credit crunch or no credit crunch, I cannot continue to operate this office with just one chair!� ---------------- Why have estate agents stopped looking out the window in the morning? Because otherwise they'd have nothing to do in the afternoon ------------------ A new teacher was getting to know the kids by asking them their name and what their father did for a living. The first little girl said: �My name is Mary and my Daddy is a postman.� The next child, a little boy said: �I�m Andy and my Dad is a mechanic.� And so it went until one little boy said: �My name is Johnny and my father is a striptease artist in a gay club.� The teacher gasped and quickly changed the subject. Later, in the school yard, the teacher approached Little Johnny privately and asked if it was really true that his dad danced nude in a gay bar. Little Johnny blushed and said, �No, he�s really a Business Development Director at Lehmaan Brothers, but I�m just too embarrassed to tell anyone.� ------------------- �What�s the difference between a no-claims bonus and a banker�s bonus? You lose your no-claims bonus after a crash.� --------------------- A concerned customer asked his stock broker if the recent market decline and volitility worried him. The broker told him that he has been sleeping like a baby. �Really?!?� replied the customer. �Absolutely,� said the broker, �I sleep for about an hour, wake up, and then cry for about an hour.� ---------------------- There are 30 billion prime numbers below 700 billion. The rest are all subprime. ---------------------- What�s the difference between a bond and a bond trader? A bond matures. ----------------------- What�s the difference between a guy who just lost everything in Vegas and an investment banker? - A tie. ------------------------ The credit crunch has helped me get back on my feet. The car's been repossessed. ------------------------- Latest news: The Isle of Dogs bank has collapsed. They've called in the retrievers. ------------------------------- What do you say to a hedge fund manager who can't sell anything? A Quarter-pounder with fries, please. --------------------- Overheard in a City bar: 'This credit crunch is worse than a divorce. I've lost half my net worth and I still have a wife.' ------------------ ou know it's a credit crunch when... # The cashpoint asks if you can spare any change. # There's a 'buy one, get one free' offer - on banks. # The Inland Revenue is offering a 25% discount for cash-payers. # Gordon Brown has stopped chewing his nails and started sucking his thumb. # Your builder asks to be paid in Zimbabwean dollars rather than sterling. # Highgrove has been repossessed. # Victoria Beckham is pictured shopping in Primark. # Alistair Darling's eyebrows have turned white. ----------------------------------- An architect, a surgeon and an economist are discussing the Creation. The surgeon says: 'Look, we surgeons are most important. God's a surgeon because the first thing he did was to extract Eve from Adam's rib.' The architect says: 'No, wait a minute, God is an architect. He made the world in seven days out of chaos.' The economist smiles: 'And who made the chaos?' ------------------------------- A man went to his bank manager and said: 'I'd like to start a small business. How do I go about it?' 'Simple,' said the bank manager. 'Buy a big one and wait.' ------------------------------ Money talks. Trouble is, mine knows only one word: 'Goodbye.' ----------------------------- A young man asked an elderly rich man how he made his money. 'Well, son, it was 1932. The depth of the Great Depression. I was down to my last penny, so I invested that penny in an apple. I spent the entire day polishing the apple and, at the end of the day, I sold that apple for ten pennies. 'The next morning I bought two apples, spent the day polishing them and sold them for 20 pennies. I continued this for a month, by which time I'd accumulated a fortune of �1.37. 'Then my wife's father died and left us �2m.' --------------------------------------- What have an Icelandic bank and an Icelandic streaker got in common? They both have frozen assets. ----------------------------------------- A director decided to award a prize of �50 for the best idea of saving the company money during the credit crunch. It was won by a young executive who suggested reducing the prize money to �10. ------------------------------------------- News from the Far East: Uncertainty has now hit Japan. In the last seven days, Origami bank has folded, Sumo Bank has gone belly up and Bonsai Bank has announced plans to cut some of its branches. Yesterday, it was also announced that Karaoke Bank will go up for sale and will likely go for a song, while shares in Kamikaze Bank were suspended today after they nose-dived. While Samurai Bank is soldiering on after sharp cutbacks, 500 staff at Karate Bank got the chop and analysts report that there is something fishy going on at Sushi Bank, where it is feared that staff may get a raw deal. ----------------------------------- And finally: Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and Peter Mandelson are flying to a world economic summit. Peter looks at Alistair and chuckles: 'You know, I could throw a �50 note out of the window right now and make one person very happy.' Alistair shrugs his shoulders and says: 'Well, I could throw five �10 notes out of the window and make five people very happy.' Gordon says: 'Of course, but I could throw ten �5 notes out of the window and make ten people very happy.' The pilot rolls his eyes, looks at all of them, and says: 'I could throw all of you out of the window and make the whole country happy.' --------------------------------------- Just got an advent calendar from Woolworths. All the windows were boarded up. ----------------------------------------- What do you call 12 investment bankers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start. ------------------------------------------ The last time Iceland had a crash like this aisle three was closed all day. ------------------------------------------ Q: Why are all MBAs going back to school? A: To ask for their money back. ------------------------------------------ Why didn't the little boy get any pocket money this week? Cos his Mum's gone to Iceland! ------------------------------------------ Once upon a time, in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He further announced that he would now buy at $20 for a monkey. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each, and the supply of monkeys became so small that it was an effort to even find a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on behalf of him. In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers. 'Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at $35, and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each.' The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys. They never saw the man nor his assistant again, only monkeys everywhere! Now you have a better understanding of how the stock market works. --------------------------------- A little old lady goes into the Chase Manhattan Bank and says she wants to open a savings account. The account person asks her how much she would like to deposit to open the account, and the little old lady says, "Three million dollars." The account person is startled, and says, "In what form?" and the little old lady says, "Cash. I've got it here in this bag." The account person looks and, sure enough, the lady has a big grocery bag chock full of green bills with big denominations. This is a highly unusual event, and the account person excuses herself to get the president of the bank to handle this one. He arrives, and escorts the little old lady to his office to handle it personally. Once in his office, he asks the little old lady where she got so much money. She says, "Gambling." "Gambling?" he says. "What sort of gambling?" "Oh, I make bets with people on all sorts of things, and I usually win. For example, I've got one hundred thousand dollars right here that says by noon tomorrow, your balls will be square, and I'll even give you four to one odds. You got twenty five thousand dollars you'd be willing to wager on that?" she asks. The bank president is shocked at this sort of thing coming from a sweet little old lady, but he didn't get to be the president of the Chase Manhattan Bank without knowing something about money. "I suppose I could come up with enough to cover that sort of wager, but I wouldn't feel right taking it from you. There's no way you can win a bet like that!" The little old lady just shakes the bag, and says, "I know what I'm doing. I can afford to lose, though I'm not going to. Is it a bet?" "Okay, have it your way," says the president, and they shook hands on it. "See you at eleven-fifty-five tomorrow morning," says the little old lady, and with that she leaves. The next morning at 11:55, the little old lady arrives with a younger man in a three-piece suit, and is escorted to the bank president's office. The president is a nervous wreck, though a happy one. He's gotten almost no sleep last night, waking every few minutes to feel his balls to check for impending squareness, but nothing happened all night. He has checked hundreds of times that morning, but still nothing. When the little old lady arrives, he starts to relax, knowing he has won. "Come in, please have a seat! Who might this gentleman be?" says the president. "He's my lawyer. For a bet of this size I want to have a witness. Any objections?" "No, perfectly understandable," says the president. "Well, it's now noon, and I'm still unchanged, so I guess I win!" "Not so fast!" says the little old lady. "For a hundred grand I want to verify things personally! Please drop your pants." The bank president is a bit flustered, but agrees that in her position he'd want proof as well, so he drops his pants. The little old lady goes over to him and reaches out to feel the organs in question. "Okay, you win, here's your hundred grand," says the little old lady, handing over a bag of bills. As she does so, her lawyer starts banging his head against the wall and moaning. "What's wrong with him?" asks the bank president. "Oh, he's just upset. Poor loser if you ask me. You see, we had a million dollar bet that I would have the President of the Chase Manhattan Bank by the b**ls by noon today." ----------------------------------

Citizens Advice Bureau - How to survive the credit crunch - In England

Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:14:45 +0000

Quite difficult to find this via google... does not show up high in rankings when searching for credit crunch... shame as there is some nice advice, please visit the following link to the Citizens Advice Bureau.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/whats_new_oct08_how_to_survive_the_credit_crunch.htm

Household finances have been badly stretched in the past year as the costs of energy, food and borrowing money have soared. But there are ways to help yourself and organisations to help you cope if you are struggling. Here are some simple tips to help you get on top of things:

1. Don't bury your head in the sand

Ignoring your debt problems will only make them worse. Don�t ignore calls or letters from the people you owe money to (your creditors).

Contact them to explain why you�re having problems. The sooner you do this, the more options you'll have for solving your financial problems.

2. Get advice

There are many organisations which offer free and independent money advice such as Citizens Advice, Shelter, National Debtline, and the Consumer Credit Counselling Service. Their debt advisers can assess your situation and work out the best course of action for you. For details of organisations which can help, go to the bottom of this page.

3. Pay your priority debts first

There are some debts you need to pay first before others, because the consequences of not paying them can be much more serious. For example, mortgage or rent debts are a priority as if you don�t pay these you could lose your home. Debt advisers can help you plan your budget and pay your priority debts first.

4. Pay what you can each month

Work out how much money you've got coming in and going out of your household on essential expenses like food and bills. Then work how much you've got left over to pay your creditors. If you can't afford to pay back all the money you owe, work out how much you can afford and offer to pay this. A debt adviser can help you do this.

5. Maximise your income

Are you getting all the money you're entitled to?

There may be benefits or tax credits you can get such as Pension Credit or Disability Living Allowance which you haven't claimed. Working Tax Credit is an in-work benefit which is not just available to people with children. You might be able to get it if you work enough hours and are disabled or your income is low enough, even if you don't have children. You may be able to get Council Tax Benefit or Housing Benefit to help you pay your council tax and rent. You don't necessarily have to be out of work to get these benefits. You may be able to get help with your health costs such as prescription charges and dental costs. You may be able to claim help with education costs such as school meals and clothing.

You may be able to get a grant to help you pay for things like fitting home insulation and improving energy efficiency. This can help cut down the fuel bills.

Your gas and electricity supplier may be able to help you if you have fuel debts.

To find out if you can get help, visit the British Gas Energy Trust website at: www.britishgasenergytrust.org.uk or the EDF Energy Trust website at: www.edfenergytrust.org.uk.

There are also some charities which give grants to people to help pay their bills or buy essential items. You can find a list of these charities on the Turn 2 Us website at: www.turn2us.org.uk.

An adviser can help you maximise your income. For details of organisations which can help, go to the bottom of this page.

6. Make savings on your household expenses

Look carefully at your spending and see if there is anything you are able to cut down on. For example, you could shop around for a cheaper gas or electricity provider, or look at cheaper mortgage or insurance providers.

You can find more information about changing your gas and electricity suppliers from the website of the consumer watchdog, Consumer Focus at: www.consumerfocus.org.uk.

To find out more about how to save money on financial products such as mortgages and insurance, go to the website of financial watchdog the Financial Services Authority at: www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk.

7. Think twice about taking out a loan to pay off all your debts

You may end up paying back a lot more than you borrowed and at very high interest rates. You may not be able to afford the repayments and the loan may be secured against your home which you could then lose.

8. Facing possession proceedings? Don�t panic

Always attend the court hearings yourself. Court proceedings do not mean that you will automatically lose your home. The court process acts as a final check to make sure repossession is the last resort. Some courts have advice desks which can provide last minute assistance.

9. Take care with �mortgage rescue schemes�

Selling your home and renting it back might seem like a quick fix to your debt problems. But, many of these schemes offer very little security. You could end up paying very high rent or even being evicted. These schemes are also not regulated so you will not have access to the same protections as a mortgage holder.

10. Don�t abandon your property

If you are struggling with mortgage repayments you may be tempted to send the keys to your lender or abandon your property. Don�t do this without advice. You could still be responsible for the debt on the property and may be pursued for it years later.

Further help

SecretSquirrel is.... the Government's Cash Cow

Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:01:01 +0000

Hearing about the Government plans to guarantee mortgage payments for 2 years on the news last night, I was disgruntled for a number of reasons. One, just how many more people is the taxpayer going to support/guarantee from what seem to be never ending pockets - this is going to be one big bite when the taxes come in to pay for all this spending our oh so wise leaders are advocating now.

Secondly, the small print that customers who had less than 16,000 pounds in the bank would NOT (yes NOT) qualify for the opportunity to take a 2 year interest payment holiday. What? If someone has 16k or more in the bank, why are they not using that money to pay their mortgage for the length of time they need it - at £1000 a month, they'd have at least 12 months mortgage payments (allowing the rest to live from etc) to give them time to find another job etc etc. Who is going to have difficulty paying their mortgage with that money in the bank - they may need to cut down on other luxury spends, but really, why are they being helped out? Is this actually going to "help" anyone or is it just a headline grabbing story that the Government hope that people don't bother to read the small print - hey no-one's read the small print on their loan agreement for years, why are they going to do so on Government schemes????

Quite honestly, as a taxpayer, I feel that I'm being milked dry, the cash cow the Government is squeezing every last drop out of.

Hey Banks, struggling, bad business model - here have some of my hard earned cash so you can slash the interest rates on my savings and keep encouraging all the other irresponsible suckers to keep borrowing money they'll never pay back.

Hey Car Manufacturers, not planned well enough for a downturn, no horizon scanning - here have some of my hard earned cash to keep you going, so you can then charge me ridiculous sums for a new car.

Hey Mortgage Borrower - can't pay your mortgage, bitten off more than you can chew, borrowed against the profits that are fast disappearing for consumer cack you didn't really need? - here, have some of my hard earned cash to keep paying your mortgage off, I didn't want to pay extra on mine anyway.

Along with some others in the UK, I made good decisions, I've saved regularly, I bought a flat with a mortgage that was within my means, calculating if I could afford it if interest rates went up, flexibility of a second bedroom to rent out if I had to etc etc - I've managed my money effectively, I have no debts other than my mortgage - Yes government, look in my wallet, take what's there to reward all the other ignorant chancing money grabbing b*stards who don't give a monkeys about anything other than their own immediate gratification - whether that be through ridiculous bonuses or through the lastest fast car/4x4 that they just can't afford.

Oh, and if any bankers supported by the government get bonuses this year - I'll be queuing up to demand mine along with all the other NHS/Police/Teachers. If you're Government backed, don't be getting bonuses on taxpayers money. That, would be the last straw.

Police state with your breakfast this morning?

Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:52:35 +0000

From Sky: quote:" Leaked info includes: illegal immigrants being given security industry clearance. Jacquie Smith warning that recession could lead to an increase in violent crime. These leaks were 'damaging' to the government. In a statement, the Conservative Party confirmed that Mr Green was arrested at home in Kent and taken for questioning at a central London police station. It said the MP's parliamentary office was searched, as were his home and constituency office. " http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Immigration-Leak-Shadow-Immigration-Secretary-Damian-Green-Arrested-Under-Official-Secrets-Act/Article/200811415163745?lpos=UK_News_First_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15163745_Immigration_Leak%3A_Shadow_Immigration_Secretary_Damian_Green_Arrested_Under_Official_Secrets_Act Pretty petty things to get arrested on... anyone could tell you that in times of recession crime does go up out of desperation... If all there is to this arrest is the government 'looking' bad, and Gordon having a member of the opposite party arrested for making him and his bunch of money grabbing, civil abusive criminals looking bad then we have just taken a step closer to dictatorship. I hope some real information is given in the coming hours to justify this treatment - why don't they just send him of to Guantanamo Bay and be done with it? The only thing these leaks show are how much damage the government and Gordonron has done to the UK. Who is going to arrest Gordon Brown for screwing up the UK economy and getting us all in to debt throughout his chancellorship? Oh, are we even allowed to criticize Stalin Brown anymore? I suppose we should all be whipped in to place and praise the grand job he is doing? Anyone ever seen the film "V for vendeta" I suggest you go and buy a copy before that too is listed as illegal material. Mr Cameron, Please call an election as soon as you can make it possible, we have to vote the Labour party out as soon as we can. We have just had out first political arrest. Will we get arrests over the "leak" of the 2.5% off VAT? Fat chance. And while we are at it... you may as well arrest Robert Peston - or is he a government plant? More from sky " The statement went on: "As shadow immigration minister, Mr Green has, on a number of occasions, legitimately revealed information which the Home Office chose not to make public. "Disclosure of this information was manifestly in the public interest. "Mr Green denies any wrongdoing and stands by his actions." " Note, the word LEGITIMATELY and the sentence "Home office chose not to make public". Erosion of free speech if ever I saw one. Anyone ever hear of Naomi Wolf? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment How far down the following list are we? 1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy 2. Create a gulag 3. Develop a thug caste 4. Set up an internal surveillance system 5. Harass citizens' groups 6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release 7. Target key individuals 8. Control the press 9. Dissent equals treason 10. Suspend the rule of law The current government is dangerous, yet again counter terrorism laws were invoked.... for not terrorism purposes, ask Iceland about how they were put on the terrorist list so that Gordon Brown could help himself to their assets. The government has dangerous extra powers and is misusing them. Full Sky Text: Mr Green, the MP for Ashford in Kent, was held but not charged and has been released on bail to return for further questioning on a date in February. It is understood the arrest was in connection with alleged leaked information relating to media stories about immigration. Tory leader David Cameron was said to be supportive of his MP and angry at the way in which the case has been handled. Mr Green denies any wrongdoing and remains in his post. In a brief statement after his release, he said: "I was astonished to have spent more than nine hours today under arrest for doing my job. "I emphatically deny I have done anything wrong. "In a democracy, opposition politicians have a duty to hold the Government to account. I was elected to the House of Commons precisely to do that and certainly intend to continue doing so." It is understood the allegations centre on four stories which have caused considerable embarrassment to the Government. David Cameron David Cameron: 'Angry' They are: :: The revelation in November 2007 that Home Secretary Jacqui Smith was aware the Security Industry Authority had granted licences to 5,000 illegal workers but did not think the Home Office's official explanation was "good enough" for the press office or ministers to use; :: The fact that an illegal immigrant had been employed as a cleaner in the House of Commons, which emerged in February this year; :: A whips' list of potential Labour rebels who might vote against the Government over plans to increase the pre-charge terror detention limit to 42 days in a crucial Commons vote; :: A letter from Ms Smith to Prime Minister Gordon Brown warning that the recession could lead to a rise in violent crime and burglaries. The Conservative Party confirmed that Mr Green was arrested at home in Kent and taken for questioning at a central London police station. It said the MP's parliamentary office was searched, as were his home and constituency office. Sources close to the Shadow Cabinet suggested that a police investigation into such a high-ranking politician would have to have been cleared "at the very top". One insider described the action as "Stalinesque... unprecedented in its high-handedness". But a spokesman for 10 Downing Street said: "This is a matter for the police. "The Prime Minister had no prior knowledge of the arrest of Mr Green and was only informed after the event."

Credit Crunch Christmas Carols

Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:49:11 +0000

Ah, those creative people at http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=63375&st=0 Look at what they put together last year... Little Wonkey ========== little wonkey a little wonkey was the banking code gotta keep on lending onwards till the model broke sell us your dodgy loans, Nationwide, Nationwide hell is your crud like loans, Nationwide, Nationwide very wonkey stupid donkeys didn't toe the line cannot keep on lending onwards now we're all sub-prime Away in a BTL empire ================= Away in a BTL empire, No crib for His shed The little Lord btl'er Laid down His sweet head The stars in the bright sky Looked down where He lay The little Lord btl'er Asleep on the hay The sheeple are lowing The poor renter wakes But little Lord btl'er No mortgage payment He makes I love Thee, Lord btl'er Look down from the flats And stay by my side, 'Til morning is nigh. Be near me, Lord btl'er, I ask Thee to stay Close by me forever And love me I pay Bless all the dear renters In Thy tender care And take us to negative-equity heaven To live with Thee there Credit Wonder Land ================ To Let signs gone, are you listening, In the lane, ForSale signs are glistening A beautiful sight, We're happy tonight. Walking in a K-winter wonderland. Gone away is the leasing agent, Here to stay is a new EA He sings a love song, As we go along, Walking in a credit wonderland. *dooobedoobedoo* laugh.gif In the meadow we can build a slum, Then pretend that it is Gordon Brown He'll say: Are you working? We'll say: No man, But you can do the job When you're in court. Later on, we'll retire, As we dream by the mire To face afraid, The plans that we'd made, Walking in a credit wonderland. In the meadow we can build a PM up, And pretend that he's a grown up We'll have lots of fun with sense undone, Until the other kids knock him down. When it sells slow, ain't it thrilling, Though your credit gets a chillin We'll frolic and play, the Gov't way, Walking in a credit wonderland. Let it sell! Let it sell! Let it sell! ======================= Oh the ForSale sign outside is frightful, But BTL is so delightful, And since the market has gone to hell, Let It Sell! Let It Sell! Let It Sell! It doesn't show signs of selling, And I've bought some flats for letting, The leases have gone to hell, Let It Sell! Let It Sell! Let It Sell! When we finally kiss goodnight, How I'll hate going out in the storm! But if you'll really hold my credit tight, All the way home I'll be alright. The ToLets are slowly dying, And, my dear, the interest is frightening, But as long as you'll love me in negative-equity hell, Let It Sell! Let It Sell! Let It Sell! Once in Royal Davids City ===================== Once in royal David's city Stood a lowly cattle shed Where a landlord bought the property now it's buy-to-let instead Kirsty said the markets hot But the place has got dry rot. He came down to earth from heaven when the credit lines did fail With no tenants he's in doo-doo So he starts to weep and wail Still he holds,in futile hope Prices slide the slippery slope. Now the fixed rate deal has ended And the high street is quite bleak Landlord's warned of banks foreclosing He is really up the creek Pay the price for avarice HPC will take the piss. rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif Merry christmas everybody. Hark The Herald Angel Sings ======================= verse: Hark! the herald agents sing who'd have thought it, cash is king property sales are in a mess my TT's been re-possessed chorus: investment landlords are confounded the mortgage's up, the rent has foundered tenants have the upper hand landlords know that they are damned verse: Hark! the herald agents sing only vendors ever ring buyers have long since departed time for price falls to get started chorus: But the vendors just won't listen refuse to accept that rates have risen willing to wait as long as it takes but we'll go broke, for heaven's sake the last chorus (with descant): how we wish we hadn't ramped now we're going to be tramps the scum of the earth we are, it's true gone to rack, and ruin, too 12 Credit Days Of Xmas =================== On the 12th day of Xmas, my bank gov sent to me: 12 Credits crunching, 11 Chains collapsing, 10 LIBORS leaping, 9 Landlords sweating, 8 Bears rejoicing, 7 EAs closing, 6 empires crumbling, 5 Gold price hikes... 4 desperate sales, 3 grinning hawks, 2 battered doves, And a smug face on HPC! To the tune of 'O Christmas Tree' ========================== O Gordon Brown, O Gordon Brown When will these house prices come down? O Gordon Brown, O Gordon Brown When will these house prices come down? Theyve risen now, for several years, Now buy to letters are in tears ( rolleyes.gif ) O Gordon Brown, O Gordon Brown It looks like house prices are coming down. (away in a manger) 2 ================ I bought with a stranger, Just space for two beds The price cost sweet Jesus It took all i had The stars on the tonights sky Sang down while we paid The landlord did fleece us He took all our pay The flooring are bowing The taps drips do wake But little does please us No profit we make I hate These, Long leases Im behind with my Sky And stay by my side, 'Til bailiffs are nigh. The interest rate, just teases, I ask it to stay Close by 6 forever I hope and I pray Bless all the dear nimbys Now in tender care And take us to see them We'll beat their ass bare. more credit crunch songs here: http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/videos/creditcrunchsongs.php

The Queen asks why no one saw the credit crunch coming

Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:38:25 +0000

During a briefing by academics at the London School of Economics on the turmoil on the international markets the Queen asked: "Why did nobody notice it?"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/theroyalfamily/3386353/The-Queen-asks-why-no-one-saw-the-credit-crunch-coming.html

We here at creditcrunch.co.uk did! And so did GHPC, and GEI. Online communities, looked down upon by the British press, saw it coming at least half a decade ago.

We did our best effort to get the message out, but even our own politicians ignored us.

URGENT: Icesave payout process will start this week for UK depositors

Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:31:14 +0000

The Icesave payout process will start this week for UK depositors in Icesave,
the internet retail deposit business of the UK branch of Landsbanki,
the Financial Services Compensation Scheme confirmed today.

http://www.fscs.org.uk/consumer/

Any Icesave customers who do not receive their first email from FSCS by close of business on Friday should contact FSCS on 0845 7300 131 (Icesave enquiries only).

Forward this information to anyone you know that has had money in Icesave.

First time buyers celebrate as property prices continue to crash

Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:29:51 +0000

Latest data confirms that there is no recovery in sight for house prices, as the dramatic large falls continue.

�1000s has been wiped of of the average home in the UK, giving many first time buyers even more reason to hold of buying a property while waiting for the bottom. The long term graph below suggest anyone whowants to buy a property should put that plan on the back burner, as in a few years time they will be able tohouse their families with larger home, and forget about property mania for a few years.

In fact, we are already back at 2005 prices, and the downward trend appears to be quite strong.

In a round about way, Gordon Brown has delivered on his promise on affordable housing - by crashing the market! LOL.

Many who have bought recently of the back of get rich quick scheme mentality from 'experts' such as Kirsty Allsop , and victims of preditory and profit chasing lending practices by the banking industry have been plunged in to negative equity andsevere debt - a lesson to us all to avoid the housing market and not touch it with a barge pole.

There seems to be a general consensus now developing on the internet and public mind , that people should

"Sell now, before they miss the sell to rent boat forever"

It seems that the further house prices fall, the less time you have to jump out - unlock your gains - and jump back in at a lower price, hence making a nice profit.

Unfortunatly, many may have missed this boat already as it may have set sail months ago.

Falling house prices bad news? Really?

Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:09:13 +0000

Here is a statement that worries me, on BBC news this evening.

Falling house prices make us feel poorer and we will spend less - anyone who believes this tosh, is an idiot.

Is the UK economy so decrepit, that it is WHOLLY based on how much bad debt the young can be tricked in to taking?

Auntie Pravda (BBC) talk so much rubbish, most of the time.

I see no reason why falling houses should make, as a whole, the country poorer - unless the majority have been lead astray by Brown and tricked in to the UK property ponzi scheme,

Falling house prices mean,
1) More people will be closer to buying in cash, no loans needed.
2) The proportion of Loan/Deposit will be lower.
3) Deposits also will be lower.
4) Paying less for a house, means... more cash in your pocket to go out and slosh around.

If the bbc are referring to spending power by borrowing against your house increase, well... I personally think anyonewho thinks they are rich because they are borrowing against their house are plain thick in the head. Only poor peopleneed to borrow. Harsh fact of life there. If you need to borrow to buy something, you can't afford that something. If you are borrowing against that something you could not afford to buy in the first place, then you heading closer to the poor house.

Now, say property falls in price - house prices become more affordable , meaning, you now need a smaller loan, you are heading in the correct direction of affordability of the house.

Say property falls so far, that you can pay for it outright, in about a month... after that, you have no mortgage payments, and think of all that spare cash you could spend on stuff!!

So ask yourself again, falling house prices, do they make you feel richer or poorer?

.Now take these stories on the BBC today, about repossession and negative equity, why do you think those poorbastards now feel - poor? Is it because they bought a nice cheap house, or... is it because they bought an expensive house?If they bought a cheap house they would not have been repossessed.

Repeat after me...

FALLING HOUSE PRICES, (and so cheaper homes), MEANS MORE SPARE CASH & MAKES YOU RICHER!

http://pravda.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7694819.stm

And 1 in 10 properties will be in negative equity.

Clear as mud.

I feel richer every day property prices fall, or at least move further away from poverty and servitude to the banks.

I am also very quickly losing patience with this type of "Education" from tax sourced funding, really, the public should not be givenso much rubbish information. If you yourself, are feeling poorer because of falling house prices - its because you were tricked in to buying an expensive property in the first place.

Welcome, thanks for visiting.

Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:00:10 +0000

We thought we would thank the now thousands of unique individuals visitors who read this website every month.

The latest stats for October 2008, have broken all previous records and 11,000 of you are credit crunch fans.

If you scroll down to the end of any page of this website, you will see a geovisitors link that looks like this,

It shows you a flag where your nearest access point to the internet is, it could represent 1 person or 100 people.Here is a snap shot of todays activity in the uk,

The UK is covered with people who read this site, you may have a few credit crunchers in your area!

What are you waiting for, join the forum and start communicating! Check back each day to see which parts of the UK are more active.

Who is that in Paris? Bonjour!

Add our facebook application, and share your information with your friends.

Market Meltdown

Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:03:07 +0000

QUOTE:

`Systemic risk has become bigger and bigger,'' Roubini said at the Hedge 2008 conference. ``We're seeing the beginning of a run on a big chunk of the hedge funds,'' and ``don't be surprised if policy makers need to close down markets for a week or two in coming days,'
www.bloomberg.com: Roubini Says `Panic' May Force Market Shutdown

QUOTE:

Alan Greenspan has called the recent turmoil in the global financial markets a "once in a century credit tsunami".
bbc.co.uk: Financial crisis 'like a tsunami'

You should watch this.

Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:06:53 +0000

Are you confused my money lingo? Do you want to KNOW what inflation really is? What is Interest?What is really debt? What is the money supply? Do banks really create money out of thin air?This is an eye opener!

Watch This!http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

They do say music gets better in times of resession, time for a Credit Crunch Christmas Album 2008? Credit Crunch Song ?

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:30:42 +0000

I really am impressed with the creativity of the public,

Here are a few music videos about the credit crunch I found out there on the interweb...

Some are quite good!

http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/videos/creditcrunchsongs.php

Is the time right to release a credit crunch album?I think a credit crunch song would beat Mr Blobby hands down!BBC have finally caught up, and are talking about a credit crunch song, good luck to this guy.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7690698.stm

Gordon shows the Tories what a real boom and bust looks like.

Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:06:50 +0000

Here I am tonight, with half my guts on the floor after my sides split upon reading this gem fromthe timesonline Apparently, Gordon Brown promised "no more TORY boom and bust"!

QUOTE:
On Saturday the results of an encounter between the journalist Allison Pearson and Gordon Brown were published. After a load of the usual stuff about eating cold lamb chops with his children and so forth, they finally get down to business. Pearson asks if the Prime Minister �if he has any regrets about his boast: �No more boom and bust'�.

And here is his priceless reply: �I actually said: �No more Tory boom and bust'.� Yes, that really was what he told her.

Are you as lost for words as I am? All he needs to do now is to ask his friends at the BBC to get rid of tapes where he says it! And I would not be surprised.

QUOTE:
The old boom and bust consisted of rapid fluctuations, with medium-sized boom followed by medium-sized bust. This time we have had a long period of growth, followed by a bust so bad that it has almost destroyed the financial system.

Nothing like a Labour, Gordon Brown bust to show the Tories how its done. Chuckle chuckle...

And here is a link to a contribution by secret squirrel on how Gordon Brown celebrated and encouraged the risk taking in the city that he was warned by the IMF on SOooooooooooooo many occasions.

http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1350

Laugh or cry, I can't choose.

Mandy has a lot of work to do, and painting gordon brown as the saviour of our economy is a very bad joke.We have a duty to vote out this clown and the Labour party at the next election.

Here are some more memorable statements by the clown himself:

"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."Gordon Brown's 1997 Budget Statement

"Under this Government, Britain will not return to the boom and bust of the past."Pre-Budget Report, 9th November 1999

"Britain does not want a return to boom and bust."Budget Statement, 21 March 2000

"So our approach is to reject the old vicious circle of the...the old boom and bust."Pre-Budget Report, 8 November 2000

"Mr Deputy Speaker we will not return to boom and bust."Budget Statement, 7 March 2001

"As I have said before Mr Deputy Speaker: No return to boom and bust."Budget Statement, 22 March 2006

"And we will never return to the old boom and bust."Budget Statement, 21 March 2007 1) Tony Blair: 1997 Conference Speech

I want this to be the New Labour Government that ended Tory boom and bust forever.

2) Tony Blair: 2000 Conference Speech

The first big choice: a government with the strength to deliver stability, or a government that takes the country back to boom and bust.

3) Tony Blair: 2005 Conference Speech

In the first two terms we corrected the weaknesses of the Tory years: boom-and-bust economics

4) Tony Blair: November 2003

If we want to contrast what we have done in the past few years on delivery with what the right hon. and learned Gentleman delivered, let us remember the interest rates at 10 per cent. to 15 per cent., the 1.5 million fewer people in work, the boom and the bust and the borrowing at 8 per cent. of GDP.

5) Tony Blair: November 1999

We have the best chance of ending boom and bust in years.

6) Tony Blair: November 1998

...examine the legacy that we inherited and what we did. We had boom-and-bust economics and a doubled national debt.

7) Tony Blair: 2006 Conference Speech

In 1997, we faced daunting challenges. Boom and bust economics.....Now, for all that remains to be done, dwell for a moment on what has been achieved.

8) Tony Blair: February 1999

Moreover, for decades we have been prone to far greater swings in the economic cycle than our continental counterparts. It has been boom and bust....Under this Government, there is an entirely new framework for economic management in place

9) Yvette Cooper: May 2004

We know that they want to turn the clock back, but it would be foolish to turn it back to a policy of boom and bust.

10) Alistair Darling: January 2000

On top of that, we have a healthy and stable economy and an end to the boom and bust that characterised the Tory years.

11) Alistair Darling: March 2005

As I said, there are two approaches�first, a strong economy, stability and helping families or, secondly, the Tory cuts, the undermining of stability, and a return to the boom and bust of the 1990s.

12) Alistair Darling: June 2007

...ackno

wledges the outstanding performance of the economy under this Government with the longest unbroken economic expansion on record, in contrast to the boom and bust of the previous Government

13) Gordon Brown: March 2007

We will not return to the old boom and bust

14) Gordon Brown: December 2006

Boom and bust is a term that applied to the Conservative years and two of the worst recessions in history

15) Gordon Brown: March 2006

I have said before: no return to boom and bust.

16) Gordon Brown: March 2001

We will not return to boom and bust.

17) Gordon Brown: November 2000

Our approach is to reject the old vicious circle of the '80s--rising debt, higher long-term interest rates, higher debt repayment costs, lower growth, higher unemployment, then enforced cuts in public spending. That was the old boom and bust.

18) Gordon Brown: March 2000

Britain does not want a return to boom and bust.

19) Gordon Brown: November 1999

Indeed, Britain was set to repeat the old, familiar cycle of boom and bust. Since then, we have created and rigorously adhered to a new framework of modern economic management

20) Gordon Brown: November 1998

Britain was set to repeat the boom-bust cycle that led to 15 per cent. interest rates for one whole year in the early 1990s.

21) Gordon Brown: June 1998

rigorous financial discipline that, together with monetary stability, ends once and for all the boom and bust that for 30 years has undermined stability

22) Gordon Brown: May 1998

The Government have put in place policies to deliver that objective and are determined to avoid a return to boom and bust.

23) Gordon Brown: April 1998

We will not return to the stop-go, boom-bust years which we saw under the Conservatives.

24) Gordon Brown: November 1997

I am satisfied that the new monetary policy arrangements will deliver long-term price stability, and prevent a return to the cycle of boom and bust.

25) Gordon Brown: July 1997

Today, the Bank of England has agreed with me that, if we are to prevent the cycle of boom and bust, inflationary pressures in the economy, which the previous Government negligently failed to tackle, must be brought under control

26) John Prescott: January 2005

Labour economic stability has replaced Tory boom and bust

27) Alan Johnson: February 2000

The Government's first priority on coming to office was to secure long-term economic stability and put an end to the damaging cycle of boom and bust.

28) Douglas Alexander: June 2006

there are genuine questions to be asked about why we now have the highest level of employment in many decades, contrary to the position during the boom-bust years of the Conservatives.

29) Ruth Kelly: November 1999

The Government have rejected the boom and bust of the Conservative party

30) Ruth Kelly: May 2002

We must avoid a return to the days of boom and bust that manufacturers had to endure for a long time under the Conservatives.

So how safe are your savings?

Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:17:07 +0000

With the Icelandic Bank, Landsbanki being taken into administration, many of the 300,000 British Savers with money in their UK arm Icesave, were left wondering how they would begin claiming up to �50,000 of their money back.

However, it isn't that simple. Icesave are not operating as an FSA institution (unlike Kaupthing hf) and instead are part of a much lesser known "Top-up Scheme" available to banks within European Economic Area (EEA) countries that has today come to light as the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) begin to answer Icesave customer queries.

Essentially, each EEA country is required by the EU to guarantee deposits of up to a minimum of 20,000 Euros. Some, like Ireland and Germany, have elected to guarantee substantially more than the minimum. Banks within these EEA countries who operate branches within the UK, but not under FSA authorisation, can elect to be part of the Top-Up scheme with the FSCS. Where they have elected to be part of this scheme, the guarantee of the EEA country covers the deposit prior to the FSCS stepping in.

What does that mean? Well, for Icesave Customers, Iceland's Government guarantee the minimum 20,000 Euros (approx �16,000). So the first �16,000 of any claim for compensation would be dealt with by the scheme of the Icelandic Government. For any savers with savings up to �50,000, the FSCS would then step in to top up the difference between the �50,000 and the �16,000 covered by the Icelandic Government. Where the guarantee of the Government exceeds the FSCS �50,000 (e.g. Ireland who guarantee 100% of the deposit), that guaranteed supercedes the FSCS compensation claim and the entire claim would be made with the foreign Government.

It's important to get all the information possible when choosing where to place your savings and websites such as the Financial Services Authority and the Financial Services Compensation Scheme will have detailed information about FSA Authorised banks, and banks included in the FSCS �50,000 guarantee or Top Up scheme.

It also shows just how important it is to read behind the headlines and the Government reassurances that "it'll be alright everyone". Arm yourself with the facts, you'll be able to make fully informed decisions.

Good luck all Icesave Customers - I hope you get ALL your deposits you've worked so hard for back.

(Links to more information available here: http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1347 )

UK savers lose thousands of pounds, protect your savings!

Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:05:15 +0000

Iceland's government has taken control of the country's second largest bank, Landsbank and in the UK it is known and trades as Icesave. So right now in the UK, if you bank with Icesave you money just went up in smoke. Icesave says that it is not currently allowing customers to take money out of their accounts. BBC news tonight featured a lady who had GBP 100, 000 in Icesave ... no wonder the demand for gold has rocketed. So, are you going to wait until you can't withdraw you cash, or are you going to your money before the UK banks do? http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7656387.stm First test of the financial guarantee to take place, many UK citizens have lost cash and show their anger here; http://forum.globalhousepricecrash.com/index.php?showtopic=42023 Act now, and get your cash before you too lose it.

Chemical Spray Conspiracy - do you still trust the government.

Mon, 06 Oct 2008 10:33:00 +0000

Well, When the government tells you they are going to guarantee your deposits, tell you to take out crippling debt only to find out later you now have a property that is crashing and a debt you will be paying back until your pension should you trust them? NO - if you have not learned this lesson yet, rewind to 2002 on a completely different matter. As reported the The Guardian newspaper; http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience/print The UK government were spraying you with chemicals and playing with your health, and guess how they described the tests, harmless weather experiments. Are you going to trust the UK government? Can you trust them about the bank guarantee? The answer is a glaring no. Buy physical gold, and keep your cash at home - for those of us aware of fractional reserve banking know it is impossible to guarantee 100% the cash as it simply does not exist. The UK government for a long time has been flying planes and spraying large parts of the UK with chemicals to imitate biological attacks, in effect - attacking its OWN people with chemicals. These drugs are being linked with lung cancer and birth defects, the government doesn't believe it to have been deadly - so why did they lie? Deadly or not WHEN did the government get my consent to experiment ,chemically or financially, on myself, my family and friends? This information has been released in a government report, for tests up to 1979! Up to this point the test were described to the public as weather experiments, and after questions if these experiments are still carried out, they said they do not want to discuss ongoing research. It is almost certain that these spray experiments are still going on, and there is nothing you can do to protect yourselves. What are you going to do? Your own children are now defenselessly being exposed to chemical spraying by the UK government! Am I the only one here that is appalled. Are you also going to expose your self to the toxic debt that is in our financial system? At least here you can take steps to protect yourself and you should, go and get at least a months worth of wages and keep it at home - you get to teach those banks a lesson or two. We have all been lab rats for a financial experiment too, wrap up warm! Here is the link to the chemical guardian article. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience Click on this story header for a reproduction of the story before it is pulled. Article here reproduced in full, in the case of it being pulled. * * Article history The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public. A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979. Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told. While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments. The report reveals that military personnel were briefed to tell any 'inquisitive inquirer' the trials were part of research projects into weather and air pollution. The tests, carried out by government scientists at Porton Down, were designed to help the MoD assess Britain's vulnerability if the Russians were to have released clouds of deadly germs over the country. In most cases, the trials did not use biological weapons but alternatives which scientists believed would mimic germ warfare and which the MoD claimed were harmless. But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are demanding a public inquiry. One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour. While the Government has insisted the chemical is safe, cadmium is recognised as a cause of lung cancer and during the Second World War was considered by the Allies as a chemical weapon. In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax. These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius. The report also reveals details of the DICE trials in south Dorset between 1971 and 1975. These involved US and UK military scientists spraying into the air massive quantities of serratia marcescens bacteria, with an anthrax simulant and phenol. Similar bacteria were released in 'The Sabotage Trials' between 1952 and 1964. These were tests to determine the vulnerability of large government buildings and public transport to attack. In 1956 bacteria were released on the London Underground at lunchtime along the Northern Line between Colliers Wood and Tooting Broadway. The results show that the organism dispersed about 10 miles. Similar tests were conducted in tunnels running under government buildings in Whitehall. Experiments conducted between 1964 and 1973 involved attaching germs to the threads of spiders' webs in boxes to test how the germs would survive in different environments. These tests were carried out in a dozen locations across the country, including London's West End, Southampton and Swindon. The report also gives details of more than a dozen smaller field trials between 1968 and 1977. In recent years, the MoD has commissioned two scientists to review the safety of these tests. Both reported that there was no risk to public health, although one suggested the elderly or people suffering from breathing illnesses may have been seriously harmed if they inhaled sufficient quantities of micro-organisms. However, some families in areas which bore the brunt of the secret tests are convinced the experiments have led to their children suffering birth defects, physical handicaps and learning difficulties. David Orman, an army officer from Bournemouth, is demanding a public inquiry. His wife, Janette, was born in East Lulworth in Dorset, close to where many of the trials took place. She had a miscarriage, then gave birth to a son with cerebral palsy. Janette's three sisters, also born in the village while the tests were being carried out, have also given birth to children with unexplained problems, as have a number of their neighbours. The local health authority has denied there is a cluster, but Orman believes otherwise. He said: 'I am convinced something terrible has happened. The village was a close-knit community and to have so many birth defects over such a short space of time has to be more than coincidence.' Successive governments have tried to keep details of the germ warfare tests secret. While reports of a number of the trials have emerged over the years through the Public Records Office, this latest MoD document - which was released to Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker - gives the fullest official version of the biological warfare trials yet. Baker said: 'I welcome the fact that the Government has finally released this information, but question why it has taken so long. It is unacceptable that the public were treated as guinea pigs without their knowledge, and I want to be sure that the Ministry of Defence's claims that these chemicals and bacteria used were safe is true.' The MoD report traces the history of the UK's research into germ warfare since the Second World War when Porton Down produced five million cattle cakes filled with deadly anthrax spores which would have been dropped in Germany to kill their livestock. It also gives details of the infamous anthrax experiments on Gruinard on the Scottish coast which left the island so contaminated it could not be inhabited until the late 1980s. The report also confirms the use of anthrax and other deadly germs on tests aboard ships in the Caribbean and off the Scottish coast during the 1950s. The document states: 'Tacit approval for simulant trials where the public might be exposed was strongly influenced by defence security considerations aimed obviously at restricting public knowledge. An important corollary to this was the need to avoid public alarm and disquiet about the vulnerability of the civil population to BW [biological warfare] attack.' Sue Ellison, spokeswoman for Porton Down, said: 'Independent reports by eminent scientists have shown there was no danger to public health from these releases which were carried out to protect the public. 'The results from these trials_ will save lives, should the country or our forces face an attack by chemical and biological weapons.' Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: 'It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.'

Nationwide - House Price Crash to continue at same pace.

Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:47:52 +0000

Nationwide data out today confirms the UK house price crash is unstoppable, data shows prices have plummeted for an 11th consecutive month, dropping by 1.7% in September!

We are now just shy of 13% year on year falls, what does this mean... over the last year the average property has lost more than �20,000, and thats if you are lucky.

Nationwide have stated that the rate of fall will stay the same for some time, to quote "pace of house price falls had stabilised", don't be fooled by their use of the word stable, they just mean that downward slope in the graph next to this writing will be a straight line down for some time. At this rate, we will be at 25% falls this time next year... more than likely much much more.

Please continue to use BeerHunters great tool at http://www.property-bee.com, to track property falls in your area.

As usual Fionnuala Earley, Nationwides cheif econimist, their top dog... made a complete fool of her self, read the following quote.
"Casting back one year, there have been some astonishing and unpredictable developments in the housing and financial markets,"

UNPREDICTABLE? Look my dear, give up the day job! This forum and the other in our linked section, have put forward data, and soundarguments for the trouble we are experiencing - some of these forums have been around for at least 5 years - and have tried to warn you of your ways.
Do you have ANY idea how foolish your comments sound?

Other news
As the economy and property market is crumbling around us, I was very pleasantly surprised to see the stories in the press today about the public waking up and spreading their investment, i.e dipping their toe in the gold market... A source, who was down at ATS bullion on the strand reported shortages in Gold and queues of people buying gold , this particular source happened to buy the last gold kruggerand in stock.

The public are correct not to trust the banks.

P.S.

On the back of this data, don't forget the credit crunch one liners you might want to shove down peoples throats at dinner parties, if you want to shut up people who have tried to pressure you in to buying property in the past.

Political conflict of interest

Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:25:50 +0000

Reputation and confidence run hand in hand � one without the other inspires nothing but disdain, particularly when the Prime Minister and Chancellor display deficits in one or both attributes. The nett effect of poor reputation is the lack of believability that a 'decision maker' can or will follow through with some form of change methodology and not a finger in the air jobbie. In the absence of the aforementioned believability it's no wonder confidence in those 'decision makers' ebbs inexorably away, often never to return. Human nature has it that we remember best what we last learnt, experience or found unacceptable - it's no wonder then that credibility in both the PM and Chancellor has dissipated to the point they have become lame ducks. If they were to be able to collectively (miraculously) do something out of the ordinary (instead of the now very tired party line) to effect peoples lives for the better, they would still be up against it by virtue of the fact they have trouble selling it, selling any 'better' notional idea for that matter. That they (PM & Chancellor (puppet)) don't budge from their now superfluous positional rolls indicates they no longer operate with the interest of the people they are there to represent, but simply insist they stay the course for their own means, ends and benefits masked by the repetative "we will continue to make the tough decisions" tirade. Both the PM's and Chancellors position have been untenable for a very long time - their surreptitious scaremongering and arbitrary knee-jerk actions is reprehensible - it has no place and serves only to confirm a major political and financial conflict of interest. Regardless of any outcome from the present worldwide financial fallout which the PM should stop hiding behind, he will go down in history for being one of the most obtuse and blind-sided PM's with one of the shortest tenures in high level government. Neither of those individuals exude confidence which the markets badly need as do the people, the proof of that is that they 'wait' to see what the US does next in the absence of their own 'creative' ideas, and palm others ideas off as their own - whilst I accept the US's actions are often instrumental in what can be done, waiting should not be an option - initiative is required, and they have none left, not least public money in the coffers. Piecemeal politics is over - major time for change in clear-minded approaches and discipline is needed, but who? More importantly, when?

The 700 billion dollar conspiracy theory (You heard it here first)

Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:13:41 +0000

"I hope you're confident about our economy. I am. We've got some short-term issues to deal with� - "This economy of ours is on a solid foundation, but we can't take economic growth for granted." GWB �The global economy has been more robust than at any point I can recall,� �the economy is resilient� Henry Paulson etc etc First, McCain tries to wrong foot Obama into a knee-jerk reaction of going or not going to Washington. Second, McCain�s presence in Washington was steeped in self interest with absolutely no consideration to the negative effect his and the presidential election candidates would have on any bail-out �resolution�. Third, the Republicans have resigned themselves to losing the upcoming presidential election, and as a result have attempted to line their lint filled pockets with �bail-out� money, leaving the Democrats to find a way out of an even deeper deficit pit. Yes, that�s right, a handful of senior and not so senior Republicans as well as other sycophantic interested parties have colluded to bringing down the country at the expense of the people in addition to a skillful attempt at leaving the Democrats to sort it all out and answer for why they would co-approve the plan in the first place... of course once they get to �power�. Here�s the rub� Definition of terrorism; 3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government. There can be no doubt that certain dark forces in Government have been busy capitalizing on the securing of their own �golden parachute� by external-insider dealing activity. As contentious an issue or matter for debate and deliberation it is, one cannot escape one verifiable fact, the government of the day cannot be trusted! I can tell you now, I am no conspiracy theorist. Enter Michael Moore!

Global Financial Armagedon - Don't forget why we are here.

Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:50:15 +0000

Simply stated again and again on the telle, it is "toxic debt" that has cause this problem, but - what is it? It is debt that the average person has been pushed into, that they can not pay. Do not forget that the media for the past decade have been ramping and hyptnotising the UK public in to thinking house prices always go up... etc... hanging the public by the noose of greed, helping them in to the noose by pushing mortgages of embarrassing proportions, 6,7 10 times sallery, 125% loans on houses that are actually not worth slaving away several life times. The continuous property programs telling people they can add 10,000 on a house just by painting a wall magnolia. The larger the loans the greater the profit the banks were making skimming off the interest, 6% interest on a 300,000 loan for a shoebox is more profitable that a fairer price of 60,000. Kirsty Allsop, Phill Spencer et al - hang your heads in shame - you were part of the root infection of our economy. Sooooo many young people now have a chain of debt around their neck, homes repossessed all because of this criminal drug type pushing of debt and property - no need to describe the programs , you know the criminals. This, is what the "toxic debt" really is, but it easier to call it this that tell the public what exactly this "toxic debt" is.

Website traffic, and thank you to visitors.

Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:42:31 +0000

Over the last day or so, if you visited this website you will have noticed that we have been off line with a bandwidth error. The demand for this website from visitors has just rocketed, thousands and thousands of unique visitors are visiting here and our servers just reached their limit. We have invested in a bigger server, so for now, we can accommodate all of you. We have plenty of readers, if you have an opinion you want to air - if you want to discuss the credit crunch, this is THE place to do it, you will reach many many people in the UK.

They were right.... Take a look at this video

Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:11:21 +0000

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

Perhaps the public are now ready to watch this video without brushing it off...

Email this to your friends.

What can I say, buy gold .
Don't miss the next bubble! Yet more media exposure to gold as an investment, this time from the timesonline.co.uk .

The legal definition of money,

Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:27:04 +0000

mSparks from http://www.theborgmatrix.com came up with this good explanation of the legal definition of money, The One Show on the BBC picked up on it but failed to give mSparks any credit. QUOTE (mSparks @ Apr 11 2008, 12:36 PM) * The problem he has, is the legal definition of money, and the reality of what money is are two very different things. In legal terms, money is exactly what your J6P considers it to be, a briefcase full of notes written by the BoE, which is excepted in the payment of taxes. In reality - i.e. what should actually matter to you and I, its much more complicated than that. The example I use is as follows: Me: "Which would you prefere, these 5 �20 notes or this envelope and pen." Pupil: "well, duh, those 5 �20 notes of course." I then write on the envelope "I promise to pay your rent for 6 months" and ask the same question again Pupil: Pause, "the envelope..." Then I cross that out, and write below it "I promise to give you �1million tomorrow" and again ask the question. Pupil: Pause, Pause, "I think I'd take the notes" Me: "Why? surely your rent is less than �1Million? why would you want the envelope before, and not now?" Pupil: blank look. Me:"Its actually very simple, you wanted it before, because you would trust me enough to cover your rent for six months, you know I dont have �1million to give you and so the envelope is again worthless" However, courts would consider the �1million envelope to be worth �1million, and if (s)he accepted it, I would be obliged to pay, or have an order raised against my assets and be made bankcrupt. It sounds like he was trying to argue like the uneducated pupil, and the court had no choice but to laugh at him. The point he could have win on is possibly securitisation, several lawyers in the US have won cases (or rather Deutsche bank has lost several foreclosures) because foreclosure has been brought by the institution that originally made the loan, but then it sold it on to multiples of other institutions, in US law the 'owner' of the debt must bring the foreclosure, and double jeopardy prevented anyone from trying to foreclose again. However we don't have double jeopardy afaik, there is no argument that the bank owns his debt (however much they paid for it).

Brown Buzzword Bingo

Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:05:52 +0000

Found this out on the interweb on another house price forum, great game. Spread it around!!! How to play Brown Buzzword Bingo :- Every time the man opens is mouth on telle, have this list to hand, tick of which ever predictable and rubbish phrases the man uses.... or print out this helpful score card. http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/_WZcommonimages/bbb.jpg hard working families well placed to weather the storm global financial turmoil oil price shock low unemployment low interest rates under the last Tory government interest rates were 15% Strong Fundamentals getting on with the job Its the right thing to do Brown bonus ball: Prudent. See if you can get full house. Then visit our Gordon Brown myth buster section, to find out exactly how much rubbish the man is spouting. http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=55

Gordon Brown today anounced he would take measures to prevent future Booms and Busts.... again....

Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:55:00 +0000

Gordon Brown is clinically insane, who was it that said the definition of madness is repeating something again and again even though is fails all the time, well... Gordon McJockstrap is pledging to eliminate Boom and Bust... again.. he is using slightly different words but thats what he is saying. [quote]Gordon Brown has pledged to "clean-up" the financial system following the rescue of Britain's biggest mortgage lender HBOS by Lloyds TSB.[/quote] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7623053.stm He promises to make sure future busts do not occur!! The man is sickening, he promised to eliminate boom and bust 10 years ago! And now he has failed, he is promising to do the same again! For gods sake, look at what state our country is in after the past 10 years, please please no more of the same from the same man again!! Can the UN step in and monitor a democratic election? The UK is under a dictatorship, with an unelected leader, subject to criminal policies that are not working and are being repeated.

Please contact BBC - Panorama, to help with their Lehman Brothers Special.

Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:45:42 +0000

We got the following message from BBC panorama today: Hello, On Monday Panorama is broadcasting a special programme following the Lehman Brothers collapse. How Safe Is My Money? will look at the bank's demise, its impact and how comsumers are likely to be affected. We are looking for four specific types of case studies to help us tell this story. The people we are looking for are: - Someone about the retire on a private pension who have seen the value drop - Someone who has an amount of cash but who are now confused and concerned about where to put - A first time buyer who is trying to get a mortgage - Someone on a LIBOR rate mortage If this sounds like you and you would are willing to speak to us please e-mail panorama@bbc.co.uk Many thanks, BBC Panorama team

Collapse of the global banking system imminent.

Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:51:39 +0000

Collapse of the global banking system? AIG a keystone in the global financial arch is crumbling.

Readers here and on our linked sites can not say they are surprised by the collapse of Lehman Brothers, and from the posting history on the forums these events were expected. The property price crash could now turn out to be even worse that we had predicted, we are looking at a total melt down where a 50% fall would be optimistic, property isgoing to be close to worthless very soon. Cut your asking price by 30 % now and then by 5% a month until you sell, youwont see your money again if you don't.

The next bank set to go is AIG , these people have their finger in every pie, they underwrite everyone - they are an insurer and should be able to payup to help out the failing banks - but it seems they too have been guilty of wearing the emperors new clothes.

If AIG go under, there will be no confidence left across many more banks across the globe - this crisis is systemic, planned or unplanned it is part of the banking system and can not be extracted and can only be played out. AIG failing will simply be catastrophic, other insurers have AIG as their foundation and so do many other banks.

The availability of money / debt is going to be extremely tight for the next 5 years, there is very very little confidence in the credit business and there is no bright side (Alister Darling, bringing in regulation after the crash is not looking on the bright side - you twonk) .

What is the effect on property prices?

Well - a hell of a lot of highly paid bankers (compared to the average wage outside the business) have lost their jobs, thousands of people have suddenly lost the ability to pay overpriced house prices even if they were convinced by a spotty teenage estate agent.There is simply no one out there who can afford to buy a house.

In light of recent events can you not see Gordon Browns plans to persuade young people to commit financial suicide buy buying property now is just criminal - Gordon Brown - OUT OUT OUT.

Yesterday was the signal for the turning point where if you have bought an expensive house - there are going to be absolutely no buyers, gullible or not, to take your property of your hands.

You have a mortgage - what about your monthly payments. I am afraid that inflation in the UK is approximately 5% and has been rising, the target is 2%. The mortgage rates are already de-coupled from the UK interest rate and are very high, but the bank of england will be forced to raise rates which will defiantly give the mortgage companies further excuse to raise your mortgage payments - we are about to enter double digit repayment rates of 15% and possibly further. With house prices now falling at double digit rates again, the picture for anyone with a mortgage is very grim indeed.

I can imagine anyone who has crystallised and preserved their wealth in gold bars or coins are very happy with themselves, the fear at the moment isthat the paper cash in your pocked is about to turn in to very well decorated toilet paper. Even if you buy just one gold kruggerand, youwill be have some small protection on your wealth if you are interested in buying in to gold in a big way, store it in a vault in Zurich - anywhere AWAY from the UK - for more info on gold and gold confiscation laws please visit DrBubbs website, you can find the link to globaledgeinvestors in out links page.

Contact Us

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:05:13 +0000

The quickest way to contact us would be to join the main chat forum and start posting. If, however, you would like to discuss something in private you may find us at talk2us <at> creditcrunch <dot> co <dot> uk

Government Launches Rescue Package for Builder Companies

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:47:21 +0000

Well, this is really what its all about. Gordon brown - rescuing the building markets at any cost just to stay in power. Watching Darling on TV news was just unbearable, look Darling - stick to your bloody guns... you fell back in my estimation today after being briefly elevated. If we are so bloody well placed, if the fundamentals are so damn strong then why the hell are you taking my tax money and giving it directly to the house builders? AND!! you plan includes trapping more young people in debt? Stamp duty at �175,000 for one year is not really going to help, you have just knocked 25,000 of all 200,000 properties. Own goal - if it works.. I hardly think a saving of �1,750 is going to tempt people back. I noticed the following interviews: Home Builders Federation- on BBC welcome package --- of course!! Its designed to protect their profits. Council of Mortgage lenders, say it a step in the right direction to attract investors back in to the market!! I don't want investors I want homes for families, not investment properties for little porky television presenters. The 30% loan of value of house promised to first time buyers will go directly to line the pockets of builders. Where does this money come from? Our tax? Thats right, first time buyers very own tax is going to be used to keep the properties up and unfordable. Sick isn't it. To anyone with an ounce of intelligence will see the government has just admitted that property is still at least 30% overvalued, as first time buyers can not afford to buy without this 30% gift from the government. For hells sake - just let the damn market correct by a further 30% (in total 40%), first time buyers will have a smaller mortgage to pay and an affordable property price as well as an "affordable" mortgage. That way FTBs will OWN wholy their property and not have the government. Screw the damn home builders - they gambled , they should lose and not us tax payers. Gordon Brown is desperate, and he is going to try and protect his job and take us down doing that. Gordon you are truly the most sickening little bastard this country has had the misfortune to have, call that election and let us show you how we feel you coward. One person we do like is Philip Booth - he was cut unfairly short when giving answers as I suppose it goes against GBs plans. Give this man more time to answer questions and cut off the companies who have just had their pockets lined. Philip Booth - Institute of Economic affairs, we like you here. There is one inescapable fact, even if the government does give you 30% cash, do you spend it now or in 8 - 10 months when your 30% will get you a bigger house. Wait, don't buy. Look at what the graphs say.

Darling admits he had no idea how serious the credit crunch would become.

Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:27:02 +0000

" Darling admits he had no idea how serious the credit crunch would become" http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/aug/30/economy.alistairdarling At last, the truth is told, and someone is standing up to Gordon Brown. Gordon is still rattling on about, stable economy, weather the storm, job to do blah blah blah. I'm just not sure if Darling was stupid not to see the consequences of the Brown years, and if so he probably was picked as the fall guy.

House prices crash by 10.5% in just one year - faster than the crash in the 1990's

Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:32:40 +0000

Latest Nationwide data shows month-on-month fall on 2% bringing the yearly fall to a staggering double digit value of 10.5%, a value that was predicted for the next 3 years and also a value that was denied could ever happen by estate agents and other mortgage dependent businesses.

At this rate, 30% - 50% within the next 32 months is now almost certain. Prices only go up eh? Missed the boat? Thats one boat I am glad I did not buy a ticket for.

If you have bought in the last 18 months you are probably in negative equity.

If you are a first time buyer, who has resisted the pressure from parents and friends, well done and here are some dinner party quotes to get your own back.

Message for Declan Curry, BBC: You berk.

For a while now I have generously been giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking perhaps yourhands were tied up by Auntie. But... this morning you removed all doubt from my mind, and I am now certain you a shameless non-independent VI, no wonder they let you work at the BBC.

You haven't quite been able to admit to the fundamentals over the past year clearly showing that house price falls are going to be deep, and 12 months ago you ridiculed anyone who thought 10% would happen - well look at the data today.

Your smirky little comment "so prices have fallen, your not going to be able to get a mortgage anyway" directed at people who chose to sit out the lunacy shows nothing but a nasty jealous streak running through you.

You should also know that a lot of people are shortly going to be wiping that grin of your face when they buy properties in cash, or have a hefty deposit for a cheap mortgage.

I hope your high leveraged BTL empire is weighing you down.

Beatrix Potter - Writes about the Credit Crunch.

Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:24:13 +0000

Did you know the credit crunch phenomena is as old as the hills? Here is an extract from a story written by Beatrix Potter around the time of the last great depression. " Ginger and Pickles gave unlimited credit. Now the meaning of "credit" is this--when a customer buys a bar of soap, instead of the customer pulling out a purse and paying for it--she says she will pay another time. And Pickles makes a low bow and says, "With pleasure, madam," and it is written down in a book. The customers come again and again, and buy quantities, in spite of being afraid of Ginger and Pickles. But there is no money in what is called the "till." " The full story, and links to further details, can be found here. http://www.creditcrunch.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1219 It is never too early to teach your children how to manage money properly - perhaps this is a nice stocking filler for the upcoming winter of discontents Christmas?